Talk:WikiForge

Homepage
What makes this different from the page at https://wikiforge.net? Is this the homepage for Meta or for WikiForge? Maybe this wiki should be at the root level. Hmm... Q (talk) 17:21, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

Distinctions
What exactly does WikiForge offer that Miraheze/WikiTide do not? Specifically, what are we paying for that we couldn't get at the free services? At first glance it doesn't look like the paid services offer any more freedom in terms of local wiki configuration (the same things that were restricted at MH are still restricted here from what I can tell). Amanda Catherine (talk) 22:06, 16 June 2023 (UTC)
 * @Amanda Catherine The differences are shown on this pricing page with 10gb and 50gb of storage on Forge depending on cost, plus the more expensive option has a dedicated server. This should be located on the Meta homepage though and even a sidebar link to a separate pricing page because not everyone will go to the landing page first.Borderman (talk) 07:40, 17 June 2023 (UTC)

Okay, so now that I've looked at the request page more closely, it appears that wikis can opt-out of CentralAuth here? Does that mean that those wikis have more flexibility with configuration especially related to permissions? (i.e. would such a wiki have full access to ManageWiki without any "blacklisted rights" except for ones that would literally break things if used improperly?) Or are there still restrictions on certain permissions/extensions that only stewards/sysadmins can use? Ping @Universal Omega and @Agent for further clarification. Amanda Catherine (talk) 19:41, 17 June 2023 (UTC)


 * WikiForge wikis are effectively their own little islands. They indeed have access to most, if not all blacklisted extensions. I believe we also intend to allow site owners to be able to use CheckUser and Oversight but I do need to check up on that. WikiForge wikis also have other perks like ElasticSearch and such. Agent (talk) 03:00, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
 * If CU/OS is the only thing that site owners can't use, I can live with that, especially if the features can just be turned off (i.e. nobody can use them). Just to confirm though, all of the rights listed here are available for use/configuration, obviously minus the CentralAuth ones if wikis aren't using CA? And there is no  file where extensions can't be disabled/overwritten by individual wikis? Assuming both of these things are true, about how long does it take for wikis to be created/processed? For personal reasons, I'd want to have the billing cycle start and first charge applied at the beginning of the next month. The plans here are actually cheaper than the only real competitor that I'm aware of, MyWikis, so I'm potentially interested in moving over here. Amanda Catherine (talk) 16:05, 20 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi Amanda,
 * Rights that include sensitive PII would not be allowed, there is a GlobalExtensions.php, however I am looking to remove this and add all as options in ManageWiki.
 * managewiki-restricted will still exist but highly less restrictive, only for those requiring an absolute technical reason will be restricted, the only one I can think of is SemanticMediaWiki at this time. There is more work to perfect this, but we can do overrides in LS in the meantime for IE disabling a global extension locally if requested.
 * There are still limitations, just less of them, and I can't say there aren't as we still have to protect private information to ensure some compliance. If that is an inconvenience to you I'm sorry, but unfortunately we can't do anything about it, and is how it is.
 * Things are still less-restrictive, and CentralAuth is not used at all on WikiForge by default.
 * Thanks. Universal Omega (talk) 05:50, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Note that rights that do contain PII may be eventually permitted with certain assurances for privacy protection, but for now until we get that particular piece perfected, they are not to ensure our compliance for privacy laws. Universal Omega (talk) 05:52, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
 * So this confirms that CheckUser and Oversight are not available for use? If so, can these features just be disabled (i.e. the CU extension uninstalled, and the suppression user group unset/suppression rights assigned to nobody?) More generally, perhaps it would be prudent to create a documentation page specifically stating what parts of ManageWiki are available for use and what parts aren't, along with the reasons why anything that isn't allowed is such. Something like a table or a list of extensions and permissions that can be freely used, extensions that can be enabled but need sysadmin intervention, declined extensions that can't be installed (with a reason), and blacklisted user rights/groups that can't be used (again, with a reason for each). This would be helpful for people like me who are uncertain if we want to commit to a paid hosting service but might be willing to if there is enough freedom/flexibility to make it worthwhile. Amanda Catherine (talk) 21:00, 23 June 2023 (UTC)
 * I would support developing guides, or even a single effective FAQ which comprehensively looks into these matters. --Raidarr (talk) 00:53, 24 June 2023 (UTC)
 * @Agent @Universal Omega What if a user didn't want to have anything to do with these blacklisted extensions? I joined Miraheze because all of the technical stuff was taken care of. I don't have any interest in using CheckUser etc., nor am I interested in signing an NDA. I don't have the time as most of what spare time I have is taken up by research, writing articles and editing photos. If there were ever any issues requiring the use of these extensions, would these issues be dealt with on my behalf? I am interested in a basic package mainly because I'm concerned about how much space my photos will take up, plus the elastic search and related articles extensions are what I'm primarily interested in for my Lake District wiki, which is going to be very image-based, galleries etc. Borderman (talk) 09:43, 14 July 2023 (UTC)
 * If you didn't want anything to do with them they could be completely disabled. CheckUser is already completely disabled by default. If you requested WikiForge Staff to intervene in CheckUser stuff, etc... we technically could if you permitted us with access to your wiki. But you'd have to make a written request requesting us to interven in specific instances as well. By default we do not intevene in our and leave local to handle most things. Universal Omega (talk) 15:53, 14 July 2023 (UTC)
 * @Universal Omega Ok, that’s fine. Does this extend to problem users and spam? Would this be something I have to sort out myself? I kinda got used to bots and volunteers preventing spam on my MH wiki, and don’t recall ever having any issues with that before. Borderman (talk) 17:29, 14 July 2023 (UTC)
 * For the most part, yes, you'd be in charge of reverting spam and vandalism yourself. We do have some global AbuseFilters you can enable which should mimick most of the anti-spam filters on Miraheze along with CAPTCHA as always. Agent  Talk to me! 22:26, 14 July 2023 (UTC)

So I've now discovered that WikiForge is publicly hosting its configuration like Miraheze (perhaps this should be linked to somewhere on the front page?)... and if WikiForge wikis are indeed "their own little islands" as Agent said above, why are we still still restricting permissions that have nothing do to with CheckUser or Oversight, like the 2FA management rights, MWOAuth management, the title blacklist (which is a basic sysop level permission even at the WMF), and the user rights access control? And if CentralAuth isn't enabled by default, why do we need to blacklist group names other than CheckUser and Oversight itself? Amanda Catherine (talk) 20:01, 5 July 2023 (UTC)


 * Up until recently, some wikis still had CentralAuth installed so that was entirely because of them. Now that that's been nuked, we've been slowly unrestricting rights (like renameuser which was unrestricted a few days ago) and all permissions will be reviewed shortly/removed if not necessary. Oversight permissions will likely all together be unblacklisted. Agent  Talk to me! 20:39, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
 * A lot of rights and group names have now been unrestricted on WikiForge, including Suppressor stuff, only CheckUser, other PII or technically dangerous rights are still disallowed. CheckUser will be completely disabled soon for most WikiForge wikis. An agreement can exist to let individual wiki bureaucrats enable and access CheckUser. Universal Omega (talk) 22:39, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Looks like you forgot one of the oversight permissions - "viewsuppressed" is still in the blacklist. Assuming that the 2FA rights and MWOAuth rights will also be unrestricted in the immediate future, and CheckUser can/will just be disabled if it can't be used locally, I'm thinking that I might start a project here, assuming I can find the free time to do so. Amanda Catherine (talk) 19:25, 6 July 2023 (UTC)
 * viewsuppressed has now been unrestricted on WikiForge and CheckUser is completely disabled when it can not be used locally Universal Omega (talk) 19:41, 6 July 2023 (UTC)
 * mwoauth rights are now allowed as well. Universal Omega (talk) 20:24, 6 July 2023 (UTC)

Looks like the only thing left to go is the user rights access control. Once that's done, I will more than likely subscribe with just a basic plan. Just to confirm, what exactly is the process for enabling CheckUser/is an NDA required? Additionally, do WikiForge wikis each have their own independent database, or are groups of wikis hosted together on db clusters? Amanda Catherine (talk) 20:34, 12 July 2023 (UTC)


 * User rights are completely editable. The  permission can't be granted as of now due to technical issues but there should be no group you can't edit/manage on your new wiki, you can even edit the oversight group. CheckUser currently requires an NDA so if a wiki operator signs that/opts into it, we can grant access to them. As for databases, all wikis are hosted on clusters unless you get the Dedicated or Enterprise plan.  Agent  Talk to me! 20:43, 12 July 2023 (UTC)

Forum section
How do you know that the forum posts isn’t there on this site, just asking why when it’s not there? Damien L (talk) 01:07, 12 July 2023 (UTC)